Patch Poll: Should Pennsylvania Privatize the Sale of Wine and Spirits?
House Majority Leader Mike Turzai, who represents much of the North Hills, is pushing to get government out of the liquor business. What do you think?
Photos
Videos
Since July, Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai has pushed to get government out of the liquor business.
In a news conference, the legislator from Western Pennsylvania introduced House Bill 11, which calls for the privatization of wine and spirits sales on the wholesale and retail levels.
"We need to move Pennsylvania into the 21st century," said Turzai, whose 28th Legislative District comprises Pine, Richland, Marshall and McCandless townships and Bradford Woods and Franklin Park boroughs.
"House Bill 11 is about divestiture. House Bill 11 is about the consumer. It is about reasonable prices and better selection and more convenience. It is about upgrading law enforcement," said the Republican from Bradford Woods. "It is about moving from a public sector dinosaur into the modern 21st century."
Only two states, Pennsylvania and Utah, have complete control of all aspects of wine and spirits distribution, according to a report that the governor's budget office commissioned.
"Public Financial Management Inc. was retained by the Pennsylvania Governor’s Budget Office to conduct an analysis of the current operations of thePennsylvania Liquor Control Board and assess the potential for privatization of its wine and liquor wholesale and retail operations," the executive summary from the report states.
"In the end, the decision to privatize should, at its core, come down to a consideration of what is best for all citizens of the state and the consumers the system serves," the study concluded.
"A privatized system affords the state the best opportunity to improve on the current system and optimize the financial benefits for its citizens," according to the study.
Not everyone agrees that House Bill 11 is the way to go.
The union that represents state liquor store managers has lobbied against the bill; two Pennsylvania chapters of the United Food Commercial Workers, representing state store employees, also oppose the bill, the 90.5 radio story states.
"The Independent State Store Union says that the bill’s provision to allow beer distributors to begin selling wine will cause the state store system to slowly diminish," according to the story.
The ISSU also opposes the bill.
In a December news release, Rep. Dante Santoni, D-Berks, said Democrats on the House Liquor Control Committee "remain opposed to the proposal and voted against its release from committee, but we were able to temper some of the extreme provisions included in the original bill."
"I remain concerned about the direction of this bill," said Santoni, the Democratic chairman of the House Liquor Control Committee. "I believe my amendment in committee will provide modernization initiatives not included in the original legislation."
House Bill 11 originally called for the state to close and sell its wine and spirits shops and auction 1,250 retail licenses to private operators, allocated by county, according to population, Santoni's news release stated.
Taxes on liquor would be restructured, and a limited number of wholesale licenses would be issued to distributors who sign contracts with producers.
"The current version of H.B. 11 does not divest the state store system of either the wholesale or retail sales of wine and spirits but does allow for competition in the sale of wine by allowing private businesses to obtain both wholesale and retail licenses to compete with the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board, or PLCB. There would be no limit on the number of licenses available," according to Santoni's statement.
What do you think of privatization efforts? Please tell us in the comments. Thank you!
Bill Malyszka
10:55 am on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
I am 100% for privatizing liquor, wine, and beer sales. Even though beer is "privately" sold, it is not easily available. Government needs to prune to core mission elements that add public value, not run a retail chain which actually constrains a major market segment.
MaryAnn McMahon
7:57 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Sounds like this guy has a drinkinking problem? What do you mean it's not readily available. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania and I've never had a problem finding the state store! Why would we vote to even take away 1 sustainable job let alone 5000?
Art Wegweiser
9:22 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
I think Turzai and his GOP should move into the 21st Century. I find the present system quite satisfactory and improving. The prices are decent, the selection is fine, the employees are knowledgeable and the hours are good now that PA has moved even further from its once absurd Blue Laws. What does need to be fixed is the "Beer Distributor" nonsense. It is slowly improving but I lived for decades in a University town with ONE single source of beer - and that by the full case only.
It was not a gold mine - it was a diamond mine with over 8000 contributors.
Jon Wain
1:17 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
simply put ,don't debate with some one dumber than you. Bill your an 93uhfgtjhg0
John
11:48 am on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
The PA Wine and Spirit Shops provide the commonwealth with $500 million dolars annually, even the study commissioned by the Governor said that taxes and prices would have to increase to make up for the shortfall after privatizations. Modernize the system and it can raise another $75 to 100 million annually. Can't commonsense reign here? Is where you buy your bottle of gin really more important than 5000 jobs and ongoing funding for schools and transportation?
Truman
12:26 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
I'm not a fan of the state running liquor stores. It's inefficient and bad for the consumer. That said, we are dependent on the money flow it brings in and privatization would end up pulling the rug out of a lot of state programs (i.e. public education).
Janet
6:45 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
The state of PA is one of the largest purchasers of alcohol and we get big discounts just like Walmart does. Because of this our prices are competitive with other states and that 500 million dollars helps support programs. I have gotten great recomendations at the store and it keep alcohol out of the hands of kids. Sure there are changes that could be nice but privatizing shoudn't be one of them.
I'm not sure why everyone seems to think privatizing cures all ills. It sure hasn't helped in the case of cable TV. My prices are ridiculous and there is no competiton from other cable companies. Privatizing turnpikes has turned out to be a bad idea in other states at least for the tolllpayer.
Jon Wain
1:19 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
the name truman doesn't fit histoey
Ruch
12:29 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
No to privatize! Yes to modernize!
Vikki
4:28 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Absolutely privatize! It's ridiculous how medieval the PA liquor system is!
Eric
8:41 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
This is a steady income and job provider,for the state. If you get rid of our income producing properties, we will have to make the difference up after the money they received has been spent. The reason there is so much interest in these properties, is that the are such great investments. You can't give away colateralized morgages, but they are lined up for our State stores, Turnpike, and parking meters and garages. It is just another way for the goverment to transfer wealth to their friends. Money we can count on to finance our state budgets is more important than ever.
Jon Wain
1:21 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
santorum want to be
The Dude
5:25 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
People talk how much money this brings in by being under state control! I don't know about you, but I am still waiting for my Property Taxes to drop from the Casino revenue?? This needs to go private or at least allow the sale of Beer and Wine by the private sector (Giant Eagle, Sheetz, etc). I am not a heavy drinker, but the selections stink, the prices are all over the place and high in most cases. Other states do it, why not PA. Like Vikki said, we are still stuck in the medieval times.
Doren
6:32 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
No to privatization and bring on the modernization! Give them the proper tools and they will make more money for the state. In todays economic climate, we cant afford to have family sustaining jobs eroded away.
Ryan
8:04 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
This is ridiculous, all of these politicians are rich lunatics! Why would anyone want to give up $500 million+ that the state stores put into the PA funds. Get Corbitt and Turzai out of here! It is a solid provider for thousands of families. No one has a bigger selection available, and if you don't see what you want they can order it! They want to cut educational funding, and reliable government jobs. Does it really seem like these "politicians" are representing what the public wants? No one can afford to go to college as it is, and now the governor wants to cut 500 million dollars out of the state budget. WAKE UP PA!!! No one can enforce alcohol use like the PLCB, no one under age can get their hands on alcohol in PA. Anyone else who sets up shop simply can't monitor underagers like the PLCB, and if all of these stores can't get a decent product you like, how will a little mom and pop shop do any better. Oh, never mind we can just let Wal-Mart take care of it....
Jo Beth
8:25 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Ryan
I am a high school teacher and I don't know what rose colored glasses you're looking through but 90% participate in underage drinking. I have travelled to many other states without the ridiculous PLCB and haven't seen drunken children wandering the streets. It is a ridiculous argument perpetuated by the PLCB workers to keep over paid jobs at the taxpayers expense. It is great to walk into the much maligned wal-mart in other states and have a great selection along with your groceries and guess what THEY CHECK ID'S. What a novel idea, just like the PLCB
Robert
10:05 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Salute Ryan. This is not any different than wisconsin. Take everything away from unions and replace with minimum wage jobs and they now want to do away with the minimum wage. It seems to be one of those pesky regulations the republicans can't stand. Just the republican plan to take all rights away from workers. Wake up people and smell the coffee before it's too late. This is a very important time for not only us but the entire country. The time has come to rid ourselves of all these selfserving republicans and bring some decent paying jobs with benefits back to the middle class.
JohnRz
5:01 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
I still respect teachers in spite of Jo Beth's comments.
Ted Morgan
9:19 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Dumb idea last time it came around. Still a dumb idea. All it'll do is put commercially cheap wines & beers into supermarkets and drug stores whose employees are often part-time with minimal health benefits. Would be another blow to the quality of life in Pennsylvania.
Todd Nuttall
9:30 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Privatize it! The vast majority of the actual "income" comes from alcohol taxes, not from profit (PLCB profit from sales was a pathetic 2.5% last year). Privatization would provide MANY better choices at lower cost to the consumers, and it's quite possible the "income" to the state would increase as a result. Further, PA would see a net increase in jobs (not a decrease), as many new locations would open up. Seems the only people who could possibly be against this either work for the state or the PLCB.
John
9:39 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
actually Todd the study commissioned by the Governor said that prices and taxes would have to increase to raise the same amount of money for the state and that jobs would not increase, you can look it up.
Ben
9:08 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Sorry Todd, your assumptions are wrong. Prices will go up if the system is privatized. What independent owner could make a living on only 2.5% profit? They would have to increase prices. There wouldn't be a net increase of jobs either. The chains would have no need to hire additional people and the 'mom & pop' stores couldn't afford to hire additional people. I'd also like to see the statistic that shows that only state employees and PLCB employees are opposed to privatization.
Todd Nuttall
11:45 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Ben, the only reason the margin is 2.5% is because the PLCB is a horrendously inefficient bureaucracy (as with all government agencies). I'm certain that independent shops would be able to make far more than 2.5% profit from sales. Currently the tax on alcohol in Pennsylvania is about 24% - 18% of which comes from the "Johnstown Flood Tax of 1936". This tax was supposed to be a temporary levy to help Johnstown rebuild after the flood, and should have been repealed over 60 years ago (different discussion but it was increased twice, from 10% to 15% and then to 18% in 1968, where it stands today). The vast majority of this tax "income" goes to the state discretionary fund, and would not be eliminated (as some misinformed people in this discussion seem to believe). Whether there would be an increase in jobs or not is debatable, but when it is privatized, there is no doubt there would have to be some gain in jobs in the private sector to support the sales. Plus, the state would save additional $$ by not paying PLCB employees from state tax receipts. I don't have any statistic regarding who is for/against privatization, but I've discussed this issue with literally dozens and dozens of people, and I have not talked to a single person who believes privatization is a bad idea. But it's clear to me that the majority of people who are opposed seem to be either associated with a union, are opposed to alcohol for religious or moral reasons, or advocate for publicly funded jobs.
Robert
5:41 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Todd we are against privatization because it would just bring more minimum wage no benefit jobs while eliminating good paying jobs with benefits which is what we ALL need. If that is supporting unions....so be it. You don't seem to care if people lose good jobs at no expense to you. You seem to have problems with unions.....why don't you move to wisconsin or south carolina? You will fit right in here.
John
9:35 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Gee Jo Beth, you sound just like the people who complain about over paid teachers causing their property taxes to go up. Why is it that everyone is overpaid but you?
Robert
10:52 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Just wonderin nwhat neighborhood jo beth lives in. i live in the ghetto and i NEVER see drunkin children wandering around. When corbin makes another big cut on education funds next year i hope she keeps her feelings to herself. And you know he will jobeth....hes a repukican and he won't let you get an abortion when those drunken roamers rape you either. I think jobeth should go see the wizard ASAP.
Robert
10:41 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
For the financial benefit of all the citizens......my ass. A couple millionaires will become billionaires is all. The system id just fine the way it is. What seems to be the problem? The employess seem to be making a good union wage with benefits. What do you think they would make if it was privatized? Awwww minimum wage is exactly right with NO benefits. What business is it of mike turds anyway? Why doesn't he try to do his own job and keep his nose out of a system that has thrived for many many years. Oh he's a repukican thats right. I have a feeling he won't be around much longer. He will go the way the rest of the union busting repukicans will be going this year. They just don't get it.
Marc M
10:53 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Alcohol is a dangerous substance, but when regulated can be very useful and productive for society. That's why the state regulates it. Not to mention it brings in GUARANTEED $500 million to the commonwealth every year. Transferring the sales to private power will only amount to an insatiable appetite for profit with total disregard to the deleterious effects it has on communities, consumers, and the commonwealth. Give me a break, a private corporation will do everything not to pay taxes--most of them already pay 0 taxes to the state through loopholes and such, which will in turn force us citizens to pay more in taxes to make up for it. I've been out of state many times and went to private liquor stores--they're total garbage. Most of them are small dumps with hardly any good choices in terms of what they offer, and there's usually more of them located in low-income communities. It's a shame. NO to privatization!! We need more family-sustaining jobs regulating our alcohol sales, not less, or none in this case. If the state is in desperate need of money, tell it to go after the people and big corporations who actually have all the wealth but refuse to pay their fair share and stop trying to have us working folks pick up the tab.
Robert
10:58 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Thats exactly what I tried to say Marc M. Damn you hit the nail right on the head. There isn't a thing wrong with our system and the prices and selection certainly benefit the consumer. A tip of the hat to you marc.
JohnRz
11:07 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Pubic ownership = public revenue + public responsibility. A rare win for the taxpayer.
Robert
9:31 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
SOOOOOOOOOO FUNNNY johnrz. Where did you get that equation? Let me guess. HHHmmmm let's see......rust limback....maybe hannibal?
Anne Kurtek
5:02 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
I am against privatizing, I have been to states that have done this and they do not watch out for the kids. Not only that but Corbett has made so many cuts in the budget to help people saying not enough money, what do you think this would do.
If you think it would bring more jobs again I've been to states where they have it and no extra jobs
Cindi Lash
9:53 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Folks, we are all about lively debate and civil discourse at Patch. We welcome and encourage a robust exchange of ideas. But please, let's keep it clean and without
profanity or coarse insults. Thank you!
seen2mch
6:59 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Our "will of the people"governor,Turzai and their Republican buddies ran their mouths about privatization....then they ran the numbers and guess what? The rhetoric quickly changed from privatize to modernize!! What does that tell you? Haven`t we had enough of this Tea Party/Grover Nerdquist, brain dead,starve/defund everything we don`t like mentality? Is the LCB the problem or has it been the greedy idiots(Democrat & Republican) we have in our legislature and governor`s mansion ? Veon,DeWeese,the Ories...I could go on and on...WHO keeps voting these idiots back into office? Insanity= to keep trying the same thing again and again and expect a different result. C`mon man!!
Cathy P
8:20 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Privatizing the liquor stores is a bad idea. Prices will go up and efforts to keep it out of the hands of our children will go down. The state will never make that money up and in turn taxes will go up. If it isn't broke don't fix it!!!
Kevin V
8:48 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Oh yeah let's take 5000 decent paying jobs away during a recession and replace with 7.00$ per hour jobs. This makes alot of sense.
Sally
3:59 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
No to privatization!
John
8:07 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Wow, what a great debate! If this wasn't so serious this would be fun, but with $500 million in state revenues and 5000 decent jobs at stake we can't take this issue lightly. By the way the National Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recommends against privatization to protect the public health. Isn't that more important tha be able to buy a box of wine at WalMart?
Sue
8:24 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
No to privitization, And Mary Beth, next they'll come for the teachers and as they say, their overpaid jobs. How you can make a statement that the workers are overpaid is astounding. This governor has cut education to the bone, so look out, you'll be next. And just a little info for you, the PLCB workers wages are self sustaining, in other words, it does't cost you anything. Before you post, make sure you know what you're talking about.
Patlou
7:40 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
No No No to privatizing of wine and spirits. This governor is part of a whole group of politicians and a party that has an agenda and will do anything and everything to push this agenda through. Just look at all of the changes he is trying to make in education and what about the loss of adult basic health care since he came into office.
Jeremy L.W. Burton
3:44 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
No to privatization. An important question is exactly what does privatization mean? Who will B able to purchase existing state liquor stores?? ----politically connected friends of senators and governors? How will sales of these assets be conducted???---
Walt Weidman
9:27 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
NO! To Privatzation! Don't fix what is not broken! Think long term people! A quick fix is short lived. Wake up!
Art Wegweiser
9:31 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
I think Turzai and his GOP buddies, especially our chubby Governor, should move into the 21st Century. Too late for our much beloved Santorum, mired in the 13th.
I find the present system quite satisfactory and improving. The prices are decent, the selection is fine, the employees are knowledgeable and the hours are good now that PA has moved even further from its once absurd Blue Laws. What does need to be fixed is the "Beer Distributor" nonsense. It is slowly improving but I lived for decades in a University town with ONE single source of beer - and that by the full case only.
It was not a gold mine - it was a diamond mine with over 8000 contributors.
Gino Renne
9:12 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Gino
No to privatization . We need to maintain the income and jobs that the current system generates.
Sam Pope
9:21 am on Sunday, February 26, 2012
I'll make it simple, NO! Are you insane, yea lets lose more jobs...not! Lets put more drunk drivers on the road!
Bob Rosa
12:20 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
Why try to fix something that is not broken the system works great Taxes are collected immediately the money that's made for the state saves us the taxpayers so much more money in this state. If it goes private and that's a big if this is how it will be the liquor industry will get what they want in their right pocket the local government who's pushing this will get what they want in their back pocket and all of us working class people will pay for it all out of our pockets. Wake up America.
Doug Menapace
4:04 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
Absolutely NO to privatization.
MaryKay Canarte
8:06 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
No to Privatization and YES to jobs and the support of working families.
Steel_Town
10:58 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
To be able to respond to this poll, I would like to see a few examples of what the public sector does well - that is, better than the private.
Manufacturing: No
Contracting: No
The list goes on...
Jon Wain
8:05 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
The state stores should remain in business.They make the state millions.They are always fully stocked and the prices are affordable.Not to mention there is a lot of people that work in them. Put the spirits in the grocery stores and now you get more empty store fronts. Look at the big picture ,not your whats better for me picture. You will end up paying more ,you watch
Allen Nuccio
12:21 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
A big no to privatization!
Jessica Sinichak
1:47 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
Folks, again, we appreciate and value your opinions, but please refrain from name calling. Comments that do so will be deleted. Thanks!
Laura
12:13 pm on Wednesday, March 21, 2012
A big yes to privatization!